Just installed brand new Trane XR80. 4wks after install gas valve got stuck. Replaced it and 4wk later that gas valve won’t open. Checked ground, gas pressure, and voltage all good not sure what it could be. Any thoughts?
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Tran XR80 gas vavle issue
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oil to gas conversion brooklyn
Has anyone done the conversion recently ?,did you like the job done ? how much did it cost and how long did it take ? I'm looking for a good plumber to install a gas furnace, to a small 2 studio plus store, one apartment already has gas for cooking and the building has gas for heating the hot water but it needs a furnace and the radiators /baseboard panels need to be hooked up, whats a ball park figure for the average cost ? any recommendations, for a good plumber ?
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Best Tankless Combi Boiler
Hi Everyone.
Thanks for reading this post. I am thinking of converting from Oil to Gas and get a tankless boiler combi. I have gotten three different estimates. Two of the estimates recommends Navien Combi and One recommends Bosch Combi. Navien Installers swears by the quality and blames Bosch for not having Stainless steel heat exchange. Looking at reviews, both boilers have good and bad reviews. However Bosch seems to be little better reviews than Navien. I am leaning toward Bosch Combi. Do you think Bosch Combi boilers are better or are there any other brand I should look in to?
I appreciate any advice.
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vapor stat on a short cycle
Hi, I just switch my honeywell pressuretrol for a Vaporstat. With the Pressuretrol all my radiator were banging now with the vapor stat they are very quiet. The only problem is that the vapor stat is running on a very short cycle. My system is fairly new and the boiler is equipped with a 2 stage gas valve.
Any ideas?
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Few Questions regarding Combi WMB-155c
Hello everyone. I have a few questions about my Weil Mclain WMB-155c.
I had an issue a little while back, now resolved, and the technician stated it was piped incorrectly. He stated he's installed many WMBs and knew right away it was wrong. I've also realized that it's been short cycling and I'd would like to redo all the piping.
At this point, I would like to add a buddy boiler 18 or buddy boiler 30 gallon tank (not much price difference from one to the other I found).
Looking at their install instructions I have a few questions:
1. Would you pipe it exactly the way they have it?
2. Currently I have an Amtrol #30, would I have to increase it to a #90 for the added water volume?
3. Should the piping make a loop or can it be separated as seen in the picture?
4. Is it appropriate to add a dirt separator with a magnet on the return side of the boiler?
5. The WMB-155c already has a built in circulator. I called WM today to see if it requires an additional circulator or could I get away with using the internal circulator. I really didn't get a straight answer. Thoughts?
6. Since the boiler Buddy is piped with black pipe, can I use mostly all black pipe? I saw there are black pipe manifolds etc, that I think would work well. ![]()
Thank you all for your time.
Thank you all for your time.
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Question from home-owner about a new, Rinnai M090C boiler
In current generation, high-efficiency condensing boilers, how much should the supply water temperature vary from its target or set point temperature (T-set)? I ask this because our brand-new, Rinnai M090C (propane) boiler shows a variation of almost 50 degrees F, which I think may be the reason it does not effectively heat our house. Today, for example, with an outside temp of 50 degrees F, our boiler displayed a set point temp of 165 degrees F. However, over a period of several hours, while our first-floor thermostat was set to 70 degrees, and continuously called for heat without getting satisfied, the boiler’s supply side water temperature cycled between a low of about 125 degrees and a high of 174 degrees, as measured by the boiler’s internal sensors. The total time of each “cycle” was about 6.5 minutes, with the boiler firing (“C.Heating Active” mode) during each cycle for about 1.5 minutes and idling (“CH Pump Overrun” mode) for about 5 minutes. Is this normal for the M090C, and could this be the reason it is not effectively heating our house?
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New Gas Boiler Very Loud Clicks and Thumps During Warmup
A brand new boiler is making very loud clicks and thumps. I don't know if the old one made those thumps, because the old one was dead when I bought the house earlier this year. The sound is definitely coming from inside the boiler. It sounds like it's happening right behind the pressuretrol. The noises start 5-15 minutes after the boiler turns on, lasts for 3-5 minutes, and stops when the first rad finally starts getting heat. It doesn't happen all the time. It seems to happen when it's colder in the basement. It happens almost every night even it didn't thump during the day. Lastly, the system almost always short cycles once and sometimes does twice, but the thumping rarely happens on the second or third warmups.
I recorded a 7/10 intensity banging from what I've heard so far. I only got the last 45 seconds of it, because I have to run downstairs and start recording once I start hearing it. Youtube link: https://youtu.be/HimiE3tL3pc
Things I've tried that did not have a lasting impact: 1) Changed out the two old Hoffman 40 main vents with Gorton no. 1s. One of those Hoffmans was so dirty it was completely shut and the other was letting out a ton of steam. 2) Emptied the water. 3) Lowered the psi down from 2.5 to 1.8 and increased the differential from 0 to 0.7. 4) Adjusted the radiator positions to reduce the water hammer in the pipes leading to the rads.
The one thing I have yet to try is to change out the air vents on all the radiators. Six of them Hoffman 500s and the biggest one has a Dole 1933. I just ordered 7 adjustable varivalves. If it doesn't stop the thumping, hopefully they will at least provide better heating balance and maybe even quicker time to first steam.
The noise is loud enough to wake me up every night. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated!
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combustion results
What are correct combustion results for 80 to 90 percent eff. units while burning propane. Are they the same as nat gas? i know what are the proper results for nat. gas. not sure if propane would be the same, its chemical make up is different. all i can find is its perfect combustion results, not what one would find with a electronic analyzer thanks
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Gas boiler sizing - please help/critique
I’m considering the following boilers for my 1,300 sqft ranch house – located in Doylestown, Penna (ZIP 18901).
• Bosch Greenstar 57
• Buderus GC144/3
There are two underfloor radiant zones – each is ~650 sqft (~16,000 Btu).
Envelope heat loss is ~26,000 Btu @ 50F temperature differential - ~30,000 Btu @ 60F.
Either solution will use an SST150-40 for domestic hot water.
I am heating with propane.
• Are these units sufficient for my needs?
For the Greenstar:
• What is the minimum output rate of these units with propane?
• Is the radiation from one zone sufficient to elicit the minimum output rate at condensing temperatures?
For the Buderus:
• Will I have issues with this unit short cycling as it doesn’t turndown?
Thank you all for your insights.
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CMF 80 PG DI Propane wont sense flame
I am the HO, have been trained by Nordyne (20 years ago), have swapped out atmospheric burner for this power burner about 15 years ago. I have been maintaining, cleaning, etc since about 1999. This trailer is behind my house and contains my mother-in-law...!
Anyway, over the past few years, I have had several problems with igniters that cracked or otherwise could not sense flame. On some occasions, I have swapped it out with a new one, and all was good. On other occasions, I tipped it into the flame a little further, and that did it. I always keep a couple of extras on the shelf, along with an extra control and some other odds and ends. At the beginning of this heating season, the symptoms were present at startup. (4 sec of flame then off, cycle three times, then lockout.) So I changed the igniter, but no good. Then I bent it into the flame and - voila! Off and running.
Two days ago, she called to say she heard a "big boom," and no heat so I went to investigate. Same symptoms. When I went to take the igniter out, it had broken off completely at the porcelain. So I changed it out. These were Supco SSN2200, I think. Basically a low-cost, universal igniter. The next one sizzled and burnt up on the first firing. The next one cracked, and the next one sizzled also. I have one of those left. But I decided to go to the supply house and get a higher quality one (just in case.)
So I bought two... this were also Supco, but the better ones (SIG101) which has the element that wraps around the core. Anyway, the first one was cracked, so I put the second one in. And finally, that one is working, but still isn't sensing the flame (cycles on 4 seconds, three times, and locks out.)
(This might be a good time to buy stock in Supco!)
So, I examined the flame, but it doesn't really look like any of the pictures I see, so I cannot say if it "looks good" or not. I suspect it could be something with too much or too little draft, etc. Or it could be an intermittent issue with the control. Or it could be... something else. I'm afraid that the continuum of bad igniters may be a "red herring." Or that they might mean something, that only a trained tech would know.
I know that this cannot be diagnosed through the internet. And I know that there is no substitute for having a good, qualified tech check it out. But of course, I would only want one that hangs out here, not one from the phone book... heh. (I'm in New Windsor, NY.) But, maybe one of you has some tips, advice, or questions that might lead to such. If any of that is possible, I would welcome it.
Thanks in advance,
Jake
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55 y/o gas boiler - smell, percolating sound, and now CO
My natural gas boiler is the house's original - 55 years old.
For about a month now there's been a bit of a smell when it's on - not overbearing, but noticeable. It's also been making percolating sounds - more of a stovetop coffee pot brewing than popcorn in the microwave.
For about 1.5 weeks now the CO detector has been going off when the boiler is on. Purchased a new CO detector - same thing.
It's on a ground floor utility room with front and back windows, and keeping the windows open was keeping it ventilated enough to prevent CO build up. The last few days it's gotten worse, and even a pedestal fan blowing toward the window isn't enough to keep the CO detector from going off.
The boiler now runs about 20 minutes before the detector goes off.
The flame seen from beneath are burning yellow, which I read means the boiler isn't burning the gas effectively, and causing CO.
It's the end of the heating season, and I go without it for a couple of weeks more. I'd rather replace it in the fall when it will operating more regularly, in case there's a problem with it in the weeks following installation. If I replace it now, I'll be stuck for a repair bill if it fails in some way in say, November.
The unit is 250,000 BTUs, and a guy that came out a few years ago measured all the baseboard radiators, and said the house only required a 125,000 BTU unit. He said gas was cheap in the '60s and they figured bigger was better - hence the overkill.
Is that true?
Is there way to be certain the boiler's problems aren't the result of a venting problem rather than the boiler itself?
The unit is so old, and it's a 3-zone system, that the kids that come out to look it (for things in the past), don't even know what they're looking at.
Should I be looking for a plumber rather than an HVAC person?
I don't know anything about boilers or plumbing, and have heard horror stories from others with some local contractors.
What would something like this cost, approximately in upstate New York?
I know if you get 90% efficiency you need additional venting, and it's more expensive - so I'd probably go with the 85% one. I'm sure I'll cut my heating bill by 60% either way.
Are there brands known to be better than others - or ones to avoid?
How can I find an older guy that knows what he's doing? Are there certain things I should be asking for?
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Proper installation of mod con
It seems as though every time there is a problem with a mod/con boiler it seems to be blamed on improper installation. I'm having a Lochinvar Knight 085 installed along side a new indirect water heater shortly and I'm wondering if there is anything I should make sure is present. After spending all this money I'd hate to have someone else come inspect the installation only to tell me it was done wrong.
I have seen people comment on the necessity of a LLH, magnetic filter, acid reducer, etc... what else should I be on the look out for?
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Gas Bill Math - Consumption versus boiler size
In reviewing my historic gas bills, the most therms we ever used in a month was 278. Of that, 6 went to the dryer and hot water. For academic purposes (I was a math major, you see), I calculated that it turns out to be
(278-6 Therms )/ 30 days/ 24 hours x 99,976 BTU/therm = 37,768 BTU/hr in the coldest month of the past four years.
So that month happens to be January 2018, where the average temperature was 33 degrees Fahrenheit.
If I plug in a design temperature of 33 degrees, with a heating temp of 70 degrees into my heat loss calculations, I get a heat loss of 28,279 BTU/hr. This is assuming .75 air changes per hour.
So, would it be safe to say that 28,279/ 37,768 = 75% is a good approximation of my efficiency?
Now, if my exact model of boiler was properly sized, it could have an efficiency of 83%. (but in theory less because again, not every day is a design day)
But by that calculation, this massively oversized 145,000 BTU/hr steam boiler is making my gas bill only 10% higher than it should be. (83%/75% - 1)
Now, if I fudge with the infiltration numbers a bit and say my house is tighter than I thought (.5 air changes per hour), the efficiency drops to 66%, which makes the gas bill 25% higher than it could be. But definitely no more than that.
Is that calculation correct? The boiler, whom I have nicknamed Andre the Giant, was purchased by the previous owners. I can just imagine the plumber saying, "Well, I could sell you the right-size boiler, but the bigger one will keep you three times warmer..."
It seems that if we are still comfortable with this gigantic boiler (which we are!), that I have very concrete numbers saying wait until it dies to change it. Sorry polar bears and penguins, your ice caps are melting a little more because of me!
I'm curious, what kinds of numbers do you guys get when you plug in your gas bill/boiler/heat loss numbers?
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Help...
My parents are getting work done at their house. Mainly their pool and concrete in the backyard. In the process to gas lines were opened and then capped. In short their gas was turned off. So they call me over to get their hot water back. I turned the gas on at the main, and the meter is moving... slowly. Long story shorter, the pilot will not reignite. Do I have to wait for the system to pressurize? Please help. Thank you in advance.
I am not a plumber.
I am not a plumber.
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Boiler pilot won't stay lite
My Burnham boiler pilot will not stay lit, even after replacing the thermocouple twice, and the gas valve. The valve was replaced 3 weeks ago, and the pilot stayed lit until yesterday. The pilot went out again yesterday and the tech replaced thermocouple again, it stayed lit for about 20 min, and has gone out 3 more times in the last 8 hours. The tech noticed that the new valve seems to have a fault, as it will not switch to "off", only "on" or "pilot" but I don't think this is the cause of the pilot not staying lit. The gas valve will be replaced again, and the tech said he hopes this will solve the issue, but honestly I don't think the valve the issue. When the pilot is lite, the flame is blue and consistent. Everything I have researched leads to changing the thermocouple and gas valve, so I am really at a loss trying to solve this.
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Buderus GB142 "drain plug" leaks. (what is it used for?)
Greetings,
Please see attached pic. My GB142 is leaking (only when cool) from what the parts listing calls the "drain plug" Part #80 on the diagram. I have been through the service manual many times, and can find no procedure at all that mentions this "drain plug". In the hopes of just cleaning it, I released the water pressure on the boiler, pulled the retainer clip (part #82), and tried (not very hard for fear of damaging something) to pull the drain plug out. It wouldn't come out. The diagram indicates it's square, so I didn't try and twist it. It appears to be loose in its socket. IE I can wiggle it ever so slightly so I don't think it's "crusted in solid", though there is mineral buildup around it as you can see, which I believe is the source of the leak
I'd like to take it out and clean it, and hopefully clean the orifice it seats into to resolve my leak. This is the first time I've seen this part leak in the 12 years I've had the boiler.
I've had to replace the pressure sensor O-Ring about every 3 years for leaking.
Does anyone have any ideas on getting this drain plug out safely ?
Thanks in advance.
P
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Making many changes to my home. Looking for professional advice.
I was heating with a heat pump I installed. I am a licensed HVAC person and I live in SE PA. Now into building
automation for a year, so no longer in the field directly.
The heat pump works great until about late December. I then use my baseboard heat with a 114,000 BTU oil burner until about March when I switch back over to Heat pump again.
As you might know, service on oil burners is much more intensive than service on comparable gas units. My oil burner was installed in the 70's and needs some repairs, so I've been contemplating replacing it for a few years with propane. I have other motives in this decision since I wanted a gas range and the ability to heat my home with minimal hassle in the event I lose electric power since I live out in the country.I also have a gas fireplace on a 150 gallon tank. Long story short, I figure going to a full propane setup is a good idea.
Don't try to talk me out of it, I just had a 500 gallon tank delivered to my home, the lines dug to my house and had it filled :)
I also recently added a 24 x 14 addition to the back of the house presently unheated. The original concrete pour had no insulation under the concrete, however I have a slope to the pour with 5" on the deep end and abut 3" on the shallow end front to back. I went ahead and bought 2" load bearing foam insulation to place on the floor in anticipation of another pour to both level the floor and add radiant heat.That room will also have a dedicated heat pump since the house system won't be large enough to handle it.
I have several issues I'm kicking around here, one being radiant heat is 90-110F usually so I will need to somehow use a mix valve to bring my 160F radiator temps down. I have looked at some of those setups. This decision will tie into my choice of a boiler.
Another issue I hesitate to mention because it burns me every time I think about it is when I added the gas fireplace
I accidentally drilled the hole for the gas line through the terra cotta in the adjoining chimney. The one that serves the oil burner. Soooooo.... I temporarily fished enough metal pipe up into the cavity to get me past the broken sections. Last year I bought a 6"chimney liner, got on the roof to fish it down and it wouldn't fit. I ended up selling it. Chimney opening was plenty large enough, but the masonry made a difference in hole size. For this reason I'm kicking around the idea of venting a 95% boiler and purchasing a 5" liner instead of the 6" that wouldn't fit or simply venting with pvc out the side of the house.
As someone who has serviced furnaces and boilers I am not overly impressed with the smaller hang on the wall types of units. Many are made outside of the US and parts could be a major hassle at some point. Yes they are efficient, however there is something to be said for mass in a heat exchanger. More parts means more to eventually go wrong. At this point I'm even thinking of taking a 10% hit on efficiency to avoid all of the issues that can exist with the new condensing boilers and getting older more proven tech. , or a combination of the two. I am hearing of people two or three years out having trouble with these units. The old cast iron and steel heat exchange units are tried and tested over time. Like 30-40 years or more on many units. The condensing units offer a few years warranty whoopeee. I don't want to hear , "We don't have the part because it's on the slow boat from Korea". Especially when it's -10 outside.
Anyone who would care to comment on the new units .vs older units for longevity and dependability? How have your experiences been with service and parts on these kinds of units? I'll be honest, they look flimsy to me. Are we now making the "throw away" furnace?
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Buderus GB142-30 corrosion Problems
I installed a Buderus GB142 about six years ago. It ran perfectly for the first two years and then the problems started. Long story short (as possible) I first had problems with the heat exchanger getting an accumulation of a crust that looks like grey lava which plugged it up. Since then there have been several calls for problems that all seem to be related to condensation. Today I got a 6L code. I reset the boiler and it fired right up. Later my wife discovered a "leak" which ended up being from the trap on the exhaust stack. I took that apart and it was full of a fine black grainy material. I cleaned and flushed this out and reset the boiler again. Then I got a 6A fault code so I called my tech. When he got here he discovered that the burner was plugged with "corrosion". He cleaned it and all seems well for now. Years ago when this first started we thought maybe the intake and exhaust were too close together so I then installed a taller exhaust stack. It is about 10' tall and outside the building. I asked my tech of that was too much and he said that he felt that the drain for the exhaust would handle any amount of condensate the could be generated by the unit, but I'm thinking I went the wrong way and should have re-routed the exhaust off to one side and slanted down to get rid of as much condensate as possible. Another thought we had was that the black/grey material might be particulate from neighboring wood stove. So.....................any thoughts on this would be welcome.
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Utica Boiler pilot gone out 50x, need Albany NY expert or your suggestions
I have a Utica MGB boiler whose pilot has gone out 50+ times over the last few years. We have replaced pretty much everything at least once including the pilot assembly, gas valve, & aquastat. We have installed the Johnson Controls K16RA thermocouple. We have cleaned out the pilot gas tube. The HWH on the same gas service works fine, as do the other boiler & HWH on the other service (2-family house).
Does anyone know of someone in the Albany NY area who has the expertise and will take the time to figure out the problem? I do most of the troubleshooting and repairs for the 22 boilers in my rental units and I have had a few guys in to work on this one but once it is running they are done.
Or do you have any other suggestions for me?
I contacted Utica suport and they suggested replacing the pilot assembly (which I did). I have read extensively here on HH about how to set up the thermocouple with 1/3 to half of it in the flame. The pilot flame seems robust when it is working.
EDIT I should add that replacing the pilot assembly seems to have solved most of the problems. It went out in Nov '18 and we replaced the 8 month old thermocouple, it went out again in March of '19 and we replaced the thermocouple with the K16RA, and it is out again today.
Thanks to everyone in the HH commmunity.
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What to do just before X-mas New boiler
So I got a call out for a Baxi HT 380 not giving consistent hot water. They are new owners of house and they had others come out and look at boiler could not fix it. I was so worked up I didn't take photos. So Now hear is a list what I found wrong. House is just around 3,200' four zones of heating with a manifold system. They installed venting of boiler with 2 pipes and used a dryer vent kit for the intake air. Gas piping was done wright!! The DHW was done backwards they put the Baxi Valve kit on the hot water outlet. On the heating system they did not do Prim/second and the zone valves (Taco571) was installed backwards. Tested the incoming water reads 50F and hot was all over please 100 -130 on DHW so I changed out NTC sensor same thing. Did a full tune up cleaned out heat exchanger found expansion tank bad and 3 way out let valve was not closing all the way. Ran the setup on boiler same thing as before. Changed out the gas valve thinking it is not mod. up and down. SO STRATED TO TEST ON COMBUSTING HAPPEN TO SEE THAT THEY STILL HAD THE 120V JUMPER IN ON TT TYIED IN (THIS BOILER WAS MADE 2011 WEEK 28). So even I take off a year this boiler has been on for about 52,560 hours holding temp and a lot of time pumping with zones off!! The CO2 and Co was way out with old gas valve also was out to even get it close on CO2 the CO was on high fire reading 500PPM and low was about 35PPM. Most of the time I can get low to 8.4% CO2 and CO 12PPM or less and High 8.7% CO2 and CO about 80PPM or less.
I left and told owner I need to step away to re think what more I can do and I told him I was not leaving him High and dry so I didn't charge him for any parts at this time or labor. Does anyone think of anther way to skin this cat?? The only thing I can think of is installing boiler drains on both supply and return and flushing out main exchanger to help get he heat transferring better. Also the boiler on DHW would get up to 220F and shut down but the DHW would not stay steady. I am thinking that this exchanger is plugged up with bad water seeing that the 3 way valve was and I am thinking the tubes a twisted out of place that is why I can't get the CO2 and CO to be normal
Any thought would be nice I don't want to tell them they need a boiler just before X mass.
Thanks
David
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