Hello. I've asked a few people this question, and haven't been able to get an answer.
I thought I'd try here.
On a furnace that has two-stage gas valve, what causes the furnace to run at the lower btu stage versus the higher btu stage?
Answers I have received include, "it does it when its colder outside," or, "when there's a higher demand for heat it runs the higher stage."
These don't quite answer my question.
They make me think: how does the furnace know its colder outside? and, colder than what? colder than yesterday? colder than the inside? and, how does the furnace know there's a higher demand for heat?
As far as I know, a thermostat only tells a furnace "start" or "stop."
Do modern thermostats also tell the furnace a demand level in addition to "start"?
One guy said, "oh, well there's a computer in the furnace that does it all." OK. I accept that. But computers are not all-knowing. A computer is simply a decision making entity. It takes inputs and makes decisions. For example, a furnace computer could have an outside air temperature gauge that it reads to know the difference between the outside air and the inside air (assuming it also has an inside air temperature gauge). Do furnaces these days require wires to the outside for temperature sensors?
My question is, what tells the furnace when to activate the lower stage and when to activate the higher stage?
thanks!
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two-stage gas valve query
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Pressure too high after bleeding rads?
Hi
We have a hot water boiler with original metal expansion tank and cast iron rads.
The fill valve was set at 15pSI. Normally system runs at 15 cold and 20-23 hot.
I noticed that two upstairs rads were not heating all the way across so i bled them and had air come out of 2.
Started up system and running hot it is approaching 30 and the limit for the pressure valve.
What might cause that? Did bleeding the rads cause the old tank to get waterlogged and raised the pressure? If I drain the tank to repressure will that help?
We have a hot water boiler with original metal expansion tank and cast iron rads.
The fill valve was set at 15pSI. Normally system runs at 15 cold and 20-23 hot.
I noticed that two upstairs rads were not heating all the way across so i bled them and had air come out of 2.
Started up system and running hot it is approaching 30 and the limit for the pressure valve.
What might cause that? Did bleeding the rads cause the old tank to get waterlogged and raised the pressure? If I drain the tank to repressure will that help?
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Lennox/Dunkirk Q90-100 failing to start
I have a Lennox/Dunkirk Q90-100 gas boiler that sometimes will not start. The control board will start the process and the induction motor will start to rev but will just die and then will try again. This goes on and on with a clicking sound coming from the control board, much like a telegraph key typing. I though it was the board and replaced it but that did not correct the problem. This unit was installed in 2006 to replace a Lennox complete heat system. Since then it has had a heat exchanger, igniter, 2 control boards and high limit switch replaced. If I power it down and let it set for 15 minutes or so it will start up and run fine sometimes for days with no problems other times it will only go a few cycles until the clicking returns. If you leave it alone while it is clicking it may do that for 5 minute to 3 hours and It will start by itself. Any thoughts on what may be causing this?
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Efficient Number of Zones
Hi HH Forum,
Have an old Colonial with Gas , FHW baseboard heating. Currently, there are 2 zones... 1 for the 1st floor and 1 for the 2nd. The house is currently configured as living space downstairs, bedrooms upstairs.
Considering the conversion back to a 2 family residence. The 1st floor would consist of 6 heated rooms and a heated entryway , the 2nd floor has 6 heated rooms and a heated hallway.
Here's my question: Would changing the number of zones on each floor, so you have the option to only heat the area you need, rather than the whole floor be worth the expense? AND would I recover the expense in savings over time?
Based on the layout of the dwelling..... I'm thinking 3 distinct zones per floor.
Any feedback would greatly be appreciated
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Embassy Onex suddenly won't heat past 67-70F
Hello all - I recently purchased a new home with an Embassy Industries Onex 160C combi unit for domestic and heat. I've already found useful information on this forum so decided to make an account and post a request for help. I honestly don't know much about heating so have been reading and learning quite a bit but still have limited knowledge. I tried to provide a decent description but let me know if you'd like more info or pictures.
Background:
The unit was installed in 2011 and appears to have been serviced, by the installers, yearly. I am waiting on copies of the previous records. It's a ~1500sqft house with two zones, controlled by taco zone valves, and baseboards for heat. We have a hydronic heater in the garage that is on an open loop, with the fan controlled by a thermostat. The unit is piped for natural gas. There is an external expansion tank and some sort of condensate neutralizer built into the system. When we first moved in, the temps dropped to -30F and the heater seemed to hit whatever temp we set it to.
Work done:
Soon after the cold snap, we had a "FILL" error, which turned out to be a bad/ dirty fill sensor. We had a technician come out and replace the sensor, he also noticed a loud noise on startup and replaced the combustion fan. He left and the next day our house was up to 80F. We realized the downstairs zone valve was left open. After closing the valve the temp dropped to thermostat temp (68F-70F).
Issue:
The next day we left on vacation (~3 weeks) and when we came back the house would not heat past 67F. Turning the thermostat resulted in the boiler running constantly (LCD panel displayed "c.#.#.#.#) but didn't increase the interior temps. Also, we noticed an increase in the gas bill so I assume it was running frequently while we were away. The tech came back and said everything is functioning mechanically but tried turning the unit to "high-temp" mode by flipping one of the switches, as described in the manual. He bled a tiny bit of air from the lines, but said it wasn't very much. It was in the teens but now it's getting into the high 30s during the day. The combination of high-temp mode, no air in lines, and increased outside temps allow the house to heat to 70F. Also, weather records indicate similar lows but higher high temps now then when the house hit 80F.
What I've done:
Turned up the thermostats to high 70s. Left the zone valve on 'open' overnight. Tested temps of downstairs registers, which I think are okay (~170-180 as checked with my muti-meter probe?). Increased the pressure from ~16PSI to 20-21PSI. Tried a new thermostat. Checked voltage (~27V) and operation of both zone valves when thermostats call for heat. Checked to make sure that the auto-vent on the Onex was open.
Finally, we didn't use the original installers for this work because we were given a home warranty and this new company is only option under the warranty.
Questions:
Should I be able to heat my house to more than 70?
Why did the house get hot (80s) with an open zone valve but now it only reaches 70 with an open valve?
Could the described repairs have anything to do with this?
Should I take apart and clean the unit as mentioned in the yearly maintenance section of the manual?
Is it worth reaching out to someone outside of the home warranty network (i.e., original installers)?
Is there anything else I should be asking / looking at - again this is all new to me so feel free to inform me of very simple things I should have looked at prior to posting...
Thanks for any help and sorry for such a long post!
Chase
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Need boiler tech in Brooklyn, NY
Can you recommend a good boiler technician in Brooklyn, NY? Thanks.
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Comparing oil fired boiler replacement options
I'm a little overwhelmed by all the options and variables involved in replacing my 14 year old EFM oil fired boiler with something that uses gas. I have a 2,000 sq. ft., poorly insulated, cape cod built in 1942 that has cast iron radiators. I live in south central PA and have been paying $500 per month for my oil heat and hot water. I've ordered gas.
I'm trying to calculate the 10 year cost for the following options:
1. A 95% high efficiency, wall hung "combi" boiler
2. Replacing the existing boiler and indirect hot water heater with new gas boiler and separate gas hot water heater (I'm assuming 85% efficiency).
3. Replacing the oil fired burner with a gas burner and keeping the existing boiler and indirect hot water heater (I'm assuming this will be 80% efficient)
My question is about how to convert efficiency into dollars. I realize there are variables like where I keep my thermostat set, the price of gas, etc. I'm roughly assuming that my monthly gas price will be half of what it is now (I WILL be raising my thermostat from 62 to 68). So, if my cost to run a high efficiency unit is $250 at 95% efficiency, what would the cost be for 85% and 80%?
Any thoughts or advice on the percentages I'm using or options I'm considering would be very much appreciated.
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New Boiler with indirect
Good morning all, I've been reading as much information online such as this website and getting great information. My situation is a little different as I have a 1978 tri-level house that has a furnace on the second floor only so we can remove that from the equation, I believe. I know how many therms I used per month but it's difficult for me to guess if the therm's are being used by the boiler or my gas furnace (see my dilemma?).
The first floor (1st zone) (900sq ft with 1 bed, 1 bath, and a living room. 100 feet of baseboard)
Third floor (2nd zone) (900 sq ft with 3 bed, 2 baths. 80 feet of baseboard)
Garage (3rd zone) 2.5 car with 45k btu modine hydronic heater running off boiler (heated to 45-50F only)
Gas bill was over $500 in January so I insulated the attic (previously had R19 in attic) and now it's R39. All windows and doors have been replaced with updated efficient models. My current boiler is original to the house and is 200k BTU input, 160k BTU output which seems VERY overkill. If I'm not mistaken I have my house needing just under 80k BTU to heat.
I have had a few contractors come in and they all seem to want to install the Navien 240E combi. After doing all my research and calculations I'm looking more at a mod con boiler with a direct fired 50 gal as we have two small children who need baths.
I was looking at the Lochinvar knight boilers and didn't know if the wall mount/floor mount made a difference. Also I'm thinking the 110N may be better than the 80N because the 110N has a net BTU of 89. Am on I base to make the correct decision here? I'd hate to have a boiler that can't warm my house during these -10 nights.
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Advice Needed
Hello and thanks in advance for some advice,
We live in Wisconsin and are looking to update our 25 year old Weil-McLain gas boiler. We expressed interest in a high-efficiency model and were quoted 8,000 to replace our current unit with a ECO 155MBH SERIES 2 150,000 BTU 95% efficient Boiler.
Our home is a 2,400 square foot ranch with hot water radiant heat and one control thermostat.
We know NOTHING about this type of stuff so forgive our ignorance on the questions.
1. Does it make sense to go the high-efficiency route for our home in Wisconsin?
2. Is this the best WM high-efficiency unit for our home?
3. Are there any considerations we should make with regard to replacing our existing hot water heater because of this potential new system?
Any other help or thoughts are appreciated.
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Weil-Mclain CGa 4 leaking water
I have been having issues with my cga leaking water and shutting down, I'm assuming it has to do with the leak? It shut down a few weeks ago but I saw no water. I replaced the thermocouple and it started right up again. I shut my heat off yesterday and when I put it back on today the boiler shut down once again, this time with water visibly dripping down from the insulated panel directly in front of the cast iron blocks. I moved the panel and was able to see that the nipple on the left side of the boiler that screws into the top of the cast iron is badly rotted in that area. It comes up from the cast into a tee with the pressure gauge. Theres what looks like a small relief valve coming up next to it through the same hole in the top panel of the boiler that has been steadily dripping water.Would that cause a shut down? I'm not sure why the little relief is dripping. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.![]()
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CO Detectors with Boiler Shutoff?
Getting a boiler installed this week; I've heard of the Aerco CM-6 and Honeywell E3 CO and Gas detectors that can shutoff boiler and thought of having this put in. But I'd like to hear from anyone that's used them. My concern would be an off switch in case you get false readings that turns the heat off in dead of winter, longevity--most CO detectors last 3-5 years, reliability, etc. It sounds like a good idea but if a good tech does a combustion test annually isn't that enough? (Of course that wouldn't cover a natural gas leak.)
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Boiler makes loud whistle. Sounds like air escaping a balloon.
I have new a Laars Minitherm JV225NDISU2 natural gas forced hot water boiler with six zones of baseboard. About ten times a day it makes a loud whistling sound for about 5-10 seconds. It sounds like air escaping from a balloon. You can hear the sound throughout the house and from two floors above. I think it would wake someone sleeping in the basement.
The sound is hard to localize but I think it is coming from the boiler pump. The boiler installer replaced the pump with one twice as big and also lowered the boiler temperature. Both actions reduced the frequency and duration of the whistles but have not eliminated it. Do you have any ideas as to causes and remedies?![]()
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Moved: CO Detectors with Boiler Shutoff?
This discussion has been moved.
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Lochinvar Noble Combi nkc-110 cold sandwich problems
Hi all,
Just got brand new Lochinvar Noble Combi nkc-110 installed and having cold water sandwich issue when running ANY hot water, shower or faucet.The hot water comes in waves and if I look at the unit when the water are running I can see it heat up to around 130 and going down to around 97 and over again. My DHW temp is set up 120. and I have the pre heat enabled and DHW RESPOND TIME set for 2:00 . called tech support the told me to try and replace shower head to lower gpm but this didn't pull the trick as the unit does not provide a constant temp flow of hot water .
Any ideas??
Thank you very much
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Utica boiler
I have a Utica boiler that tripped its rollout switch! The serviceman told me the length on the exhaust pipe is too long and no pitch!! He lowered pitch checked pipe for blockage but not the chimney, it tripped again!! Now the dampener was left open and front cover off as temp. Fix! I think they just wanna sell me a new system as they told me my current system isnt vented properly! Any ideas? I checked the chimney cap, everything is still in place, no signs of any animal intrusion!
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Water fill level Burnham steam boiler
New to homeownership, new to steam heating.
I have a two pipe system with Burnham PIN5SNC-MEZ boiler. I have no idea what the max fill level on this is.
The sight glass was about half full when we moved in, but someone told me we needed to monitor the water level, so in prep for winter I topped it off to about an inch below the top of the glass. Recently, I've had a lot of banging that sounds different and more rapid than thermal pipe expansion (I thought maybe steam/water hammer or something) soon after it trips on after having been off for a few hours. It seems to calm down after the system warms up. since there is steam in the system at this point, I imagine the water level has dropped a bit too so i wonder if I've overfilled it.
Any idea what max fill is on this?
I have a two pipe system with Burnham PIN5SNC-MEZ boiler. I have no idea what the max fill level on this is.
The sight glass was about half full when we moved in, but someone told me we needed to monitor the water level, so in prep for winter I topped it off to about an inch below the top of the glass. Recently, I've had a lot of banging that sounds different and more rapid than thermal pipe expansion (I thought maybe steam/water hammer or something) soon after it trips on after having been off for a few hours. It seems to calm down after the system warms up. since there is steam in the system at this point, I imagine the water level has dropped a bit too so i wonder if I've overfilled it.
Any idea what max fill is on this?
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New boulder sewage smell
We got a new boiler installed a month ago(x-2 series boiler) Every time it is on the basement stinks like sewage the company we used has no answers as to what is happening. One day after the install the boiler blew about 3 gallons of water on the floor. They said the PSI must have been too high. We just don’t know where to begin, any suggestions?
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Flow splitting a Tee
good day, I am looking for some opinions on the subject of Flow splitting a Tee. were a tee is fed into the branch, and split into two runs supplying two locations or appliances. is the pressure drop, turbulence or split amounts higher then adding an elbow to the the tee to change direction, In this case natural gas is used.
I have added pictures or clarification
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Thank you for you time
Thank you for you time
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Problem with Weil-Mclain boiler
My WM boiler is acting up. Have had no heat for the last 2 days. I have it shut off for now. When I turn it on, the power light comes on, then the TSTAT/Circ light, and then that's it. I'm thinking the control module is bad because no lights flash to tell me there's any kind of error or bad sensor, and the flame light doesn't flash after the allotted 15 seconds to detect flame from the pilot. BUT - could the electric pilot ignitor be bad? It's a CG model, and control module is 11365-605
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Control Issues With New Boiler-Turbomax Install
Finally had a Peerless MI-03 boiler and Turbomax 45 installed last week. As you can see from the attached photos the work is quite meticulous, I’ve always appreciated the art of many of the installs posted on the wall. The installer went out of his way to use the best materials and make this something that can last many years. Since the Wall helped me so much over the years to get to this point, I wanted to put up some photos for your review.
This is the second boiler install I’ve seen and I’m even more amazed at the great mix of brain and brawn that hvac entails. The amount and variety of components and materials that have to be assembled is staggering. I had hoped to take some videos and photos of the ongoing work but my basement floor was filled wall to wall with everything.
Boiler will have new 5” chimney liner installed this coming week; right now it’s in the old brick internal 33 ft chimney 7x11. Due to a heat loss of only 38K—probably more like 30K—the thought was to use Turbomax as an indirect and buffer, given the microloads of the three zones during the shoulder seasons.
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We are having some issues with the Turbomax-Boiler controls. For the problems listed below, the installer is consulting with his technical contacts but I wanted to get some wally feedback to throw into the mix.
Setup:
Temp Range: No ODR. 20º T, 160-140.
Heat Loss: 38K, three zones; MI-03 Fires at 70mbh, Net: 50mbh.
Emitters: Zones 1, 2 cast iron radiators; basement zone baseboard. Series piping for Zone 1 and 2.
(Prior monthly gas usage from stand-alone 40 gal, 30kbtu hot water tank: 8 therms, which represented about 27 hours, or an hour a day--0.25 therm day) of firing.
Hydrostat 3200+,
(3) Zone Sentry Zone Valves Z075T2, with Caleffi circuit setters set to 2gpm each zone. Zones Heat Loss: 18K, 10K and 11K.
1-Taco ZVC-403 ZV control (heating);
Taco SR501 for DHW.
Heat Circ Taco VT2218; ∆T
DHW circ VR1816. ∆P
Issues
1-Wired with the Hydrostat, we found that when DHW only was called, the heating zone valves were opening as well—even without the t-stats calling for heat and so ghost flow was circulating. Installer temporarily solved this by changing some of the hydrostat connections with the TACO ZV relay. So now the zone valves do not open unless there’s a call for heat, but he warned me that his change removed DHW priority, that heating and DHW calls could occur simultaneously which obviously increases the potential load tremendously. He is hoping his tech people will have a way to connect the controls to correct this problem.
We had talked about the possibility of piping the Turbomax as a regular indirect or using the injection system as specified in the manual. This install is apparently a ‘two-pipe’-primary secondary install. I really don’t want to lose the buffer function; adding injection I believe would add a third circ which goes against the original idea of a simple system….(FYI Turbomax Ranco aquastat is wired to the DHW circ to have the it cut in at 150º and cut out at the boiler set temp of 160.)
2-The Hydrostat feature that protects against condensation may need tweaking as well since we’ve seen the heating circ go on at water temps as low as 106. Hydrolevel has a cutout of circulator at 115 and cut in at 125. Doesn’t this seem low? Is that like the Pump Logic of Buderus? Even in this not super cold weather I’ve often seen the return water temps or boiler temp as low at 129, etc. even though if circ could be turned off temp would build quickly.
3- I’m thinking my hot water bills—esp in summer will be higher, keeping the 48 gal turbomax constantly 150-160. Maybe I can change some settings in summer. But hopefully buffer function will save some $$ in winter.
I’m curious to hear some opinions on this. Is an injection system the only way out of this?
Question: Should air vent on top of Turbomax be kept open or closed?
We are having some issues with the Turbomax-Boiler controls. For the problems listed below, the installer is consulting with his technical contacts but I wanted to get some wally feedback to throw into the mix.
Setup:
Temp Range: No ODR. 20º T, 160-140.
Heat Loss: 38K, three zones; MI-03 Fires at 70mbh, Net: 50mbh.
Emitters: Zones 1, 2 cast iron radiators; basement zone baseboard. Series piping for Zone 1 and 2.
(Prior monthly gas usage from stand-alone 40 gal, 30kbtu hot water tank: 8 therms, which represented about 27 hours, or an hour a day--0.25 therm day) of firing.
Hydrostat 3200+,
(3) Zone Sentry Zone Valves Z075T2, with Caleffi circuit setters set to 2gpm each zone. Zones Heat Loss: 18K, 10K and 11K.
1-Taco ZVC-403 ZV control (heating);
Taco SR501 for DHW.
Heat Circ Taco VT2218; ∆T
DHW circ VR1816. ∆P
Issues
1-Wired with the Hydrostat, we found that when DHW only was called, the heating zone valves were opening as well—even without the t-stats calling for heat and so ghost flow was circulating. Installer temporarily solved this by changing some of the hydrostat connections with the TACO ZV relay. So now the zone valves do not open unless there’s a call for heat, but he warned me that his change removed DHW priority, that heating and DHW calls could occur simultaneously which obviously increases the potential load tremendously. He is hoping his tech people will have a way to connect the controls to correct this problem.
We had talked about the possibility of piping the Turbomax as a regular indirect or using the injection system as specified in the manual. This install is apparently a ‘two-pipe’-primary secondary install. I really don’t want to lose the buffer function; adding injection I believe would add a third circ which goes against the original idea of a simple system….(FYI Turbomax Ranco aquastat is wired to the DHW circ to have the it cut in at 150º and cut out at the boiler set temp of 160.)
2-The Hydrostat feature that protects against condensation may need tweaking as well since we’ve seen the heating circ go on at water temps as low as 106. Hydrolevel has a cutout of circulator at 115 and cut in at 125. Doesn’t this seem low? Is that like the Pump Logic of Buderus? Even in this not super cold weather I’ve often seen the return water temps or boiler temp as low at 129, etc. even though if circ could be turned off temp would build quickly.
3- I’m thinking my hot water bills—esp in summer will be higher, keeping the 48 gal turbomax constantly 150-160. Maybe I can change some settings in summer. But hopefully buffer function will save some $$ in winter.
I’m curious to hear some opinions on this. Is an injection system the only way out of this?
Question: Should air vent on top of Turbomax be kept open or closed?
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