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Channel: Gas Heating — Heating Help: The Wall
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Need ideas

April 13, 2019, 11:18 pm
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Hello everyone. Recently I posted about repiping my combi boiler and I have some questions.

I was just in my basement looking at the combi only to find there are some connections leaking again. This happened before and I replaced the gaskets and piping about 4 months ago. Initially I thought about replacing it with a different combi or a mod con, indirect and a buffer. I already spent a lot of money on this failed equipment and a botched install and I want to know if there is anything else I could do. The combi takes care of two showers and two circulator zones. One zone is around 7000 BTU and the other is 2 toe kicks totaling 24000 at its highest on 180 water. I’m also thinking of adding copper fin tube to that run as well.

What about using a cast iron system like burnham esc with ODR? I’m guessing you can’t put a buffer tank on that so it’s likely to short cycle especially if I sized it for my entire house @ 2200 sqft. Could a gas water heater be used instead for those two zones?

I’d like to plan for the future. Currently I use steam and I’m concerned that should a radiator or behind the wall pipe leak, I could run pex to that room along with baseboard.

Thoughts?
Thank you for your time.
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Has this gas hot water boiler seen better days?

April 14, 2019, 9:59 am
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I am considering Purchasing a home with this baseboard hot water system. I’ve always had forced hot air heating. It’s a Burnham and looks to be about 30 years old, and has 2 zones. I notice a lot of rust on the maze of pipes and rust on the front and below the boiler. I’m trying to gain some pre-inspection knowledge so I can ask the right questions. I don’t need a huge bill next winter if this unit decides to die, or do I want to keep repairing a unit that is ready for the junkyard. I know t here is only so much that can be learned from a photo but appreciate all advice offered.
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Standard Propane Boiler vs Wall Hung?

April 15, 2019, 4:42 pm
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I've received a few quotes and the products are all over the map. How do I determine which are the best products? If I want to purchase a combi heat and water, does a Weil-McLain (GV90+) offer water? How does it compare with IBC wall hung high efficiency unit? One is rated at 95 the other at 92. In reality, how much savings will I see between the two? Also any advice on my purchasing the unit vs the contractor. It seems contractors like to add a hefty upcharge. It is a nice gig if you can get it but I'm not too keen on paying significantly more for the same unit. If I can find a contractor to install a unit I buy (unsure about this), what certification should I look for to make certain the installer can actually install a gas boiler meeting all quality standards? Finally, any propane boiler brands I should focus on - or avoid?
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Am I probably looking at a new boiler?

April 16, 2019, 6:10 am
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Hello! I just found out that my natural gas bill for the month of March was absolutely atrocious. December, January and February weren't far behind. The gas services a larger hot water heater as well, and a range. We cook a fair bit between my wife and I. The boiler system that came with the house when we bought it 3 years ago is a Burnham Holiday; from what I've read it's a reliable and durable boiler. The panel has a Water BTU/Hr rating of 120,000 and Input and Output BTU/Hr of 200,000 and 160,000 respectively. There's two circulator pumps, one for each zone. An expansion tank that's nearly rotted out (going to replace very soon), a much older gas valve that seems ok. I recently installed a new thermocouple myself because the pilot wouldn't stay lit- and that has been fine since. I also removed the lower tray and cleaned out the cast iron gas jets last summer- a lot of dirt/rust/debris was in there! In addition, as I can see the entire collection of gas jets, I adjust the main line every so often to get a soft, blue flame. But to be honest, I have no idea what I’m supposed to do with the air vents for each burner. I have them open a little less than mid-way. I don't think the system has been professionally inspected/serviced in a very long time. That’s where I’m headed at this point with it- but I’d like to know what to expect going into it as well. Functionally, the loop for our first floor doesn’t seem all that good. I have the “aquastat” set for nominal 180 degrees and the overtemp at 200 degrees, but in the several times this winter I peeked at the temp gage, it registered around 145-160, never above that. The boiler must run constantly to maintain our drafty old house at a balmy 67- I don’t think the system is currently able to heat it to 68 unless outside temperature is 40 degrees or greater. The upstairs loop seems fine; but we hardly ever run it. It seems the downstairs more or less heats the whole house. However- I think I should mention that our upstairs is carpeted, and also has siding installed on the exterior. The first floor is brick exterior with horsehair plaster interior walls- and nothing in between- and hardwood flooring. Newly installed windows (white plastic-type frame) throughout the house, but I think a lot of the rest is working against me. I’m trying to get myself more comfortable with the idea of having to buy a new boiler/furnace. In the meantime, I’ll have a professional inspect the entire system. Could my boiler be scaled up inside, and this is preventing it from working efficiently? Could my rotted expansion tank be contributing to my problem? (That’s probably a stupid question). The house was originally built with a fireplace and chimney which may have been functional when the boiler and baseboard radiators were installed (but aren’t now)…would that factor into the size of the boiler? Or should it have been sized as the only source of heat for the whole house regardless of any other heating sources? Your advice, tips, help or general anecdotes are greatly appreciated.
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trying to identify my boiler

April 16, 2019, 5:59 pm
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Sorry if this is the wrong place to post this. recently purchased a home built in the 1920's the heating is working fine but I was curious at how old the boiler was. There are index cards with service dates on them that go back to 1979 but I suspect it's even older. I googled for at least an hour and could not find it. The info I know: Built by US Radiator Corp in Detroit michigan Series no. 6-11 seems to labeled capitol? Maybe that's the model? basically whats on this label I took a screen shot of. Here it is:
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Can I replace masonry chimney at roofline?

April 17, 2019, 8:59 pm
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The chimney that my boiler vents into is deteriorating and I am debating what to do. There appears to be a few different factors working together to destroy this chimney, from the inside and from the outside. It is brick and it is integrated with the brick wall of the house. I presume it has a ceramic liner. There are at least two chambers and I don't think either is straight. There is also a small window in the middle of the chimney. If money were no object and if I were confident this would be my own house forever, I would certainly abandon this chimney, demolish it at the roof line and replace the boiler with a new high efficiency one. Having that chimney gone would also make it much easier to build the roof out on that back side of the house the way I think it should be, (with an overhang like is on the front of the house). My status being what it is though, I am considering fixing this chimney and trying to figure out what's practical. If this chimney is going to be used again next winter it will need one of those metal liners installed. I'm trying to figure out if that's doable, if it's something I can do or someone else can do and if it'd be worth it. ** I'm also trying to figure out if it is possible to transition from masonry to B-vent or something metal and engineered for the purpose. ** I think it would be a lot easier and cleaner job if I could demo the chimney down to the roofline. I'd be eliminating variables and going for a streamlined design, with fewer drainage/flashing/mortar/maintenance issues and also much easier access for installing the liner. And I'd be able to build the roof out more sensibly. I'm not sure if it's to code, if a liner might make it to code, and how the transition should work. I don't plan on being inspected but I like to prepare for it and obviously I like it to be functional and safe, if not proper. Can it be done?
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Best Type Insulation 1.25" Boiler Black Pipe

April 21, 2019, 7:23 pm
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New hot water boiler install. Have about 30ft of 1.25" black pipe. Various unions, Tees, elbows, check valves, threaded pipe clamps, etc. Usually it seems 1 inch fiberglass is recommended over the big box stores back foam pipe. (See photo.) Looking at metro-supply in clifton new jersey they have a product 'Fiberglass ASJ Max'. I could also insulate about 5-15 ft of near boiler/indirect 3/4" copper piping and up the hot water line a bit. Obviously I can't insulate over circulators. check valves? Like to get those zone valve and heating zone manifolds if possible.
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Boiler Help

April 22, 2019, 9:14 pm
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Looking for positive experiences ONLY with brands/models gas boiler combi before making purchase
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Can HydroStat 3200+ be set for WWSD in Summer w/o ODR sensor?

April 22, 2019, 6:00 pm
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@"Harvey Ramer" New atmospheric boiler install with Turbomax Reverse Indirect, Hydrostat 3200+ DHW priority. Not sure if Hydrostat can achieve WWSD without ODR sensor which we don't have and likely wouldn't use otherwise. I'm trying to avoid having the boiler --even if all thermostats are off--fire up on low limit all summer because 'it thinks' heating is still on. As set up now, the tank aquastat will turn DHW circulator on when tank temp gets below 140 and turn circ off when tank temp reaches 150 of 160 depending on how we set it. The boiler will and should fire on and off between the its lo and hi limits (140-160) to maintain tank temp. or perhaps I could change boiler limits also to 140-150 as long as return temps from DHW won't get too low. Without WWSD there could be situations in summer where, certainly overnight or after morning showers, and tank reaching high limit again, dhw circ goes off, little or no hot water is used for the rest of the day, the tank retains its temp above the low limit but the boiler water goes below its low limit and turns on the burner--not the heating circ/zone valves since t-stats are off--so now I'm wasting burner firings to maintain boiler heating limits when there's no DHW demand. If there is a way to set WWSD then that might take care of this(?)
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Is This 'Storage Rust' on Section of New Boiler?

April 23, 2019, 4:55 pm
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Month-old install; I expect final tuneup and control tweaks to be finished tomorrow. Peerless MI-03; looking forward to seeing significant savings over old oversized boiler. Yesterday I took a look at the cast iron sections and found one apparently with rust. What does this look like? Should it be cleaned up? This section is on same side as the return. When boiler was first installed for a few days I did smell some kind of mild chemical steam-humid-smell but attributed it to the inhibitor and de-mineralizer installed in the system water.
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Question on gas fireplace conversion

April 24, 2019, 10:17 am
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Can a Heat n Glo AT-Grand gas fireplace (nat gas) be converted from a standing pilot to a piezo ignition?
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HTP Hot plastic odors

April 24, 2019, 8:17 pm
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I have a UFT-100 boiler installed with an SSU-40 indirect water heater with a Caleffi air separator and a Grundfos Alpha II pump(and pressure reducing valve and expansion tank and other assorted accessories for a complete system). The flow calculations show about 4 gpm and the pump reads 3 gpm. It intentionally has a lower flow to keep the return water temp in the condensing range most of the time. The DHW heating supply is set to 135 degrees and the DHW firing rate is set to 65%. It is using the HTP indirect tank probe and is set to 118 degrees with a 5 degree delta T. A combustion analyzer shows about 8.8% carbon dioxide and no carbon monoxide at low fire. It was running rich for about a month before adjustment. It also was shipped via UPS so it was likely dropped. I experience a hot plastic or rubber smell that I think is coming from the foam insulation around the boiler vessel in the area above the water line. That area seems to not exceed 190 degrees or so but it is difficult to accurately measure the temperature of a surface like that(this was measured when the mixture was rich and it seemed the smell was worse with the rich mixture). It seems to happen more at the end of a DHW call as the tank approaches the setpoint and delta T of the boiler water falls. If you increase the boiler setpoint to 145 degrees there is significantly more of the smell. It has been running for about 2 months with only the DHW load so it should have had time to remove any manufacturing residues. It is set up in a powered vent configuration and is installed with the included cpvc nipple on the exhaust (but the smell does not appear to be coming from the intake). Has anyone seen anything like this? The boiler should be operating in its modulating range. I am wondering if there was a material that didn't meet spec used for the boiler insulation. It also seems that 1/8 of foam has so little insulating value that it is pointless anyhow. Is there some component behind the boiler vessel that might be making the smell? It is planned to also heat some zones of baseboard in my basement but that has not been installed yet.
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Help choosing the right gas boiler

April 26, 2019, 9:09 am
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A little background first. I graduated a 2 year plumbing and heating trade program in 2016 and worked for a service company for about a year before deciding to leave the industry and join the family business. Now I have purchased an old farmhouse in central Maine that needs a ton of work. I am in the process of renovating it now, and I am trying to save some money by running plumbing/heating/electrical myself. I am going to be replacing windows, and sprayfoaming the walls, and putting blow-in insulation in the attic. I have yet to do a heat loss calc, but I am thinking its going to be a 80k system. I am planning on sitting down with a pot of coffee and doing a full heat loss calculation in the next couple of days. I do know that I will be firing the boiler with gas. My current dilemma is trying to decide between a modulating condensing boiler or an old faithful cast iron. I wasn't in the industry very long; but long enough to go to a couple trade shows and read some textbooks about the new highly efficient mod/con boilers. I like the idea of using less fuel, but not entirely sold on the fancy heat exchangers being reliable long term. I also don't like the idea of a board going bad leaving me helpless compared to a conventional burner control that is easily replaceable. I am leaning toward heating with baseboard, although I am intrigued by the newer panel radiators. I also will be installing mini splits in the home to aid with heating and provide cooling. I have been out of the game for a while, and when I was in the game I was sitting on the JV bench. I am looking for some varsity professionals for advice. Am I misguided on my preference toward cast iron? If not what manufacturers are known as reliable? In trade school I liked Burnham and Buderus. Also has anyone had any experience with the panel radiators? Thank you in advanced for your wisdom.
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Closet Boiler Venting Into Alley

April 28, 2019, 7:28 pm
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I'm looking for some guidance on replacing a Burnham Spacemaster direct vent gas boiler. We have hydronic baseboard heating and the options considered have been in the 90,000 to 100,000 BTU range. The current boiler is in a very small closet (25 inches deep, 34 inches wide, 106 inches high) in our second floor condo in New England. It vents into an alley that is 55 inches wide with more units (and windows) on the other side and above. The alley has a dead end at the end closet to the vent, which means the current location is near a corner. Our plumber was preparing to recommend a high-efficiency condensing boiler, but the manufacturer had concerns about wind causing air intake problems since it is located near a corner in an alley. I'm also worried that the visible plume will be visible from any window facing the alley in the winter and could be a nuisance for units above us and across from us. As a result, the manufacturer recommended rerouting the vent through the roof. However, that is not an ideal option since there is another unit above us. Given those challenges, our plumber is currently looking for a conventional (e.g. non-condensing) direct vent boiler that could vent into the alley at the same location since this type of boiler has been fine venting there in the past. However, from my scan of potential options, it seems that none currently on the market will fit into the closet. Any thoughts on next steps? Are there conventional direct vent options that would fit that I have not come across? Is there another way to tackle this problem? Or should we just move forward on a high-efficiency condensing boiler and vent through the roof?
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Weil-McLain Gas Fried Water Boiler Rusted Out in 3 years

September 17, 2017, 9:13 am
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This is a Weil-McLain GV90+ Series 2 Water Boiler. It was installed about 4 years Ago in a basement room. Vented outside. There is also a 20 year old gas forced air furnace in the room that is no longer used. That is also vented outside. There is a small freezer in the room with other stored household items. NO CHLORINE products are in our possesion. Nothing in the room has any rust, in fact the old unused furnace has no rust. I posted back in August. It took me a while to get all of the pictures and information. But this is really happening to us. Winter is coming again. We started having problems with the boiler leaking after about 2 or 3 years. The service tech thought it was a loose connection. as it got worse he called a service rep. The Rep came over and they discovered that it was rusted out. Picture attached. The distributor is blaming inside air quality and / or outside air quality. We live in a small unincorporated rural community with no industry. We've been here 25 years. The distributor replaced the boiler. The new boiler was installed in November of 2016. In April 2017 we noticed a small leak again. We found a hole in a part on the outside of the furnace that was leaking. Picture attached. Our Service tech said the same thing was happening. Does anyone have any idea on what is happening ? We have well water that the installer put something in at install.
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Heatmaker

April 30, 2019, 4:00 am
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My heatmaker propane boiler is working for hot water but all three zones quit working for heat. Can someone plz help me get my heat back working for my zones.
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Chimney Affidavit

May 6, 2019, 10:27 am
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My plumber needs an affidavit from an engineer stating that my chimney has the capacity to vent 2 boilers and 2 water heaters. All 4 appliances use natural gas. I've been calling various companies looking for someone who can provide this letter but it is proving difficult to find. What kind of engineer would provide this? What companies offer this service in Queens, NY?
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Replacing old cast iron boiler with - Bosch SSB, Navien, Lochinvar?

May 7, 2019, 3:59 am
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Ripped out the old Weil Mclain 210K cast iron boiler and old radiators in my house and wanting to replace it with one of these listed above. I'm in the Hudson Valley and the house is circa 1900, 2 floors, 3 bedrooms. No insulation at all just lathe and plaster. Coldest it gets here is about -9ºF but that only lasts a few days, average is about 10ºF at night It's 2400 sq ft. and had 12 old school large cast iron radiators in it (7 downstairs, 5 upstairs). Coming from the boiler was 3" cast iron pipe splitting off to 1.5" cast iron going into the radiators. Attached is the heat loss calc that I did (per floor). I'm leaning towards the bosch ssb 120K boiler and am planning to install hudson reed traditional cast iron radiators with it. Would very much appreciate any input and any opinions at all! Thanks
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baseboard heater water spitting not fixed after three plumbers

May 7, 2019, 8:32 am
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Sorry if I am not use the correct term or words as English is not the first language. I am trying to learn as much as I can from this community. I have one pipe steam gas boiler system in an old house built in 1908. There are two bedrooms on the second floor with baseboard heaters where the water keep coming out of the air valve either in either spitting or dripping way . The two baseboard heaters are located in two adjacent bedrooms facing back yard. The rest of 7 radiators that are either facing the opposite side toward the main road or somewhere in the middle are working fine with no issue. The amount of water coming out of air vent of baseboard heaters on the second floor is a not just a tea spoon but rather a lunch box size container. See the picture. I also experienced a very loud water banging noises at somewhere above basement ceiling and under the first floor where the pipe is. The noises usually would last up to half hour when the heater is reaching to certain temperature. After that, the noise will be gone until next time to reach certain degree. I had several plumbers coming this winter already but no one seems to be able to fix it. The latest one I had coming by last weekend. He replaced total 9 air vents by Heat-Timer ‘s Varivalves. He also clean the waster glass tube and cleaning of the boiler by nitrogen and flushing water. After he left, the heavy bang noises are gone but the water issue remains the same. I called the plumber right away. He asked me to put some coasters on the side of air vent to make it higher to see if there is any difference. The water issue remains the same. I do some researching here and found Varivalves might be the issue as this product tends to spit more than others. Some fellows suggest trying a slow releasing air valve. Should I invent a more expensive one like Gorton C to fix this water leaking issue? Any other suggestions please? Thanks.
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Math time: condensate drain on common exhaust

February 19, 2019, 1:46 pm
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Gang, I have 2 Navien NFB-200s that are exhausting via a common vent. Per Navien's instructions, we put a tee facing downward just downstream from the last unit to catch condensate (otherwise, condensate can collect on top of the little dampers in Navien's special kit, preventing them from opening properly). Venting is perfect. Drain line is 1" PVC. However... Based on Navien's instructions to put a loop in some flexible plastic tubing drain line, my plumber built an impromptu -- and short -- PVC p-trap (he and I both like that better than plastic tubing). Purpose of this loop / trap is to ensure you aren't venting exhaust into the house via your drain line. But, since neither he nor condensate had filled the trap yet, we ended up ..... blowing exhaust out the drain pipe into the house. This prompted some debate and I'm not finding the right sites to tell me the math on this: how many inches of water sitting in 1" PVC will weigh enough / provide sufficient head to prevent exhaust from blowing the water out of the trap? Please point me to the math so that I can over-engineer for safety. Thanks! TC
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