First, I'll say that I've read older discussions with much interest, but it wouldn't surprise me if I missed something relevant, so feel free to point me at other threads. Discussions like Different take on tankless vs buffered, NG Combi Boiler versus indirect tank and boiler setup, and Condensing combo boiler are at least two years old, so one of my main questions is if there are any updated opinions on the Navien combi boilers now that they've been on the market for a longer time, with (I suspect) revisions and improvements?
I'm looking to replace my 50 year old Weil-McLeain boiler (nat gas, hot water). I'm in the suburban Boston area, in a ~1300 sq ft duplex with 3 zones: 1 wall-mounted radiator in the finished half of the basement, ~25 feet of baseboard in the first floor (open plan), and ~27 feet of baseboard in the second floor (3 bedrooms, at least one of which currently has poor insulation). First and second floor currently circulate as a single zone, but are piped separately. We have 1.5 baths, 2 adults, and 2 young kids. Hoping to be out of this "starter" house within 10 years, but who knows at this point.
Current boiler labeling says it's 75k BTU input, 60k output. We have a "regular" 40 gallon hot water heater.
When I put my numbers into U.S. Boiler Company's heat loss calculator I get around 30,000-35,000 for "Total Heat Loss for 60° F Temp. Diff" depending on how I interpret and fudge the numbers.
I've received a variety proposals from 4 installers; two interest me at this time. First is the Lochinvar WHN-085 boiler + indirect water heater and the other is a Navien NCB-210 combi unit (with tankless DHW). I know we shouldn't talk prices here, but I hope it's OK to say that the estimate for the Lochinvar + indirect is about 50% more than for the Navien combi. I could easily work the Navien's installed price into my budget; going with the Lochinvar makes things notably tighter.
(First installed proposed Lochinvar KHN-106 (I think he meant KBN-106?) as an alternative to save some money, but we'd only save about 10% if we skipped the indirect water heater (after account for lining the chimney) or 4% if we included the indirect.)
(Other proposals were for Burnham Alpine ALP080, Williamson GWC, and Viessmann CU3A (all boiler only), and Viessmann 222-F combination unit, but everything except the Burnham Alpine were more expensive when factoring everything in.)
So is the Lochinvar + indirect worth paying 50% extra over the Navien combi? Worth it for us if we move in 5-7 years? Worth it for a boost in home appraisal price? A neighbor, in exactly the same type of house, got the Navien put in last fall and is happy with it for the 1 year he's had it so far. My wife did a bit of research on indirect vs tankless, and besides the apparent extra cleaning maintenance, she found this Amazon.com review, both of which have soured her to the idea.
Side question: According to the WHN-085 spec sheet, that model puts out from 16,150 - 80,750 BTU. Is that the right size for my house, considering the heat loss estimate and length of radiators described above? The Navien NCB-210 lists "100,000 (180,000 for DHW) to 18,000 BTUh", which also feels a bit large. No?
I'm looking to replace my 50 year old Weil-McLeain boiler (nat gas, hot water). I'm in the suburban Boston area, in a ~1300 sq ft duplex with 3 zones: 1 wall-mounted radiator in the finished half of the basement, ~25 feet of baseboard in the first floor (open plan), and ~27 feet of baseboard in the second floor (3 bedrooms, at least one of which currently has poor insulation). First and second floor currently circulate as a single zone, but are piped separately. We have 1.5 baths, 2 adults, and 2 young kids. Hoping to be out of this "starter" house within 10 years, but who knows at this point.
Current boiler labeling says it's 75k BTU input, 60k output. We have a "regular" 40 gallon hot water heater.
When I put my numbers into U.S. Boiler Company's heat loss calculator I get around 30,000-35,000 for "Total Heat Loss for 60° F Temp. Diff" depending on how I interpret and fudge the numbers.
I've received a variety proposals from 4 installers; two interest me at this time. First is the Lochinvar WHN-085 boiler + indirect water heater and the other is a Navien NCB-210 combi unit (with tankless DHW). I know we shouldn't talk prices here, but I hope it's OK to say that the estimate for the Lochinvar + indirect is about 50% more than for the Navien combi. I could easily work the Navien's installed price into my budget; going with the Lochinvar makes things notably tighter.
(First installed proposed Lochinvar KHN-106 (I think he meant KBN-106?) as an alternative to save some money, but we'd only save about 10% if we skipped the indirect water heater (after account for lining the chimney) or 4% if we included the indirect.)
(Other proposals were for Burnham Alpine ALP080, Williamson GWC, and Viessmann CU3A (all boiler only), and Viessmann 222-F combination unit, but everything except the Burnham Alpine were more expensive when factoring everything in.)
So is the Lochinvar + indirect worth paying 50% extra over the Navien combi? Worth it for us if we move in 5-7 years? Worth it for a boost in home appraisal price? A neighbor, in exactly the same type of house, got the Navien put in last fall and is happy with it for the 1 year he's had it so far. My wife did a bit of research on indirect vs tankless, and besides the apparent extra cleaning maintenance, she found this Amazon.com review, both of which have soured her to the idea.
Side question: According to the WHN-085 spec sheet, that model puts out from 16,150 - 80,750 BTU. Is that the right size for my house, considering the heat loss estimate and length of radiators described above? The Navien NCB-210 lists "100,000 (180,000 for DHW) to 18,000 BTUh", which also feels a bit large. No?